J: In your life were there other tango dancers who you admired?
E: Oh, many, many. Because we were born in a tango neighborhood. The ones
who couldn't dance couldn't live there (laughter). Her father (Gloria's)
was a phenomenal tango dancer. He gave exhibitions! Our friends gave
exhibitions. I was a kid ("nene") but I liked tango so much that they would
let me in their conversations (if I didn't talk, just listened). Then,
hanging around at two or three in the morning on a street corner, the
conversation would turn into dance. And the dancers were dancing on the
corner, teaching. It was not like now. They did it quickly. They said,
"Here, dig this", rapidly, and you had to grab it and take it just like
that. That was a way of life, and it was imperative to learn to dance. For
example, when a maestro came to teach me in a club, two hundred people came
to see how he would teach. It was a very big thing. There was a passion for
tango. It was marvelous. And these were popular people with big names.
J: Like whom?
E: There was one named Jorge Marquez. In the 50s. He was a big name. He
would come to teach me in the practica. People would come to watch. And he
was very popular. And there was another one, named Eltin, and Sarita was
his partner, and they were the first dancers of the Troilo orchestra in one
of the theaters. And they were also tremendously popular, very popular and
from our neighborhood.
J: I would like to ask Gloria, how did the women learn to dance?
G: The women learned within my family. From their mothers, fathers,
sisters, friends and brothers. It was a family affair. Then we would all go
out together to dance, on Saturdays and Sundays.
E: The men learned in the clubs, among men. That's why we mark (gestures
with his right arm). First we learned the part of the woman, and that's how
the man feels la marca (putting his hand on his back). Today, in a
technique class I danced with all the women, and Gloria danced with the
men, explaining las marcas. This is rarely done anymore. Therefore, the
woman now helps the man doing those things for him, and the man never
really learns, never finishes learning how to use las marcas. They're in a
rush.
In my days, I was in no rush (laughs). I was only thirteen years old, how
could I be in a rush? Besides, I didn't learn with a business purpose in
mind. I learned to have fun. I wanted to get ready to go out dancing with a
woman. I wanted to have a good time. I had all the time in the world.
Everybody would teach us. It was a family thing where everyone would show
you (something). One day we'd go to one club, the next day we'd go to
another club to see how they danced in the other neighborhoods. Because it
was a different style. Because we could see, watching somebody dance,
whether he was from Valentin Alsina, Pompeya or Villa Urquiza. We'd see
someone dancing a little bit strange. We'd say, "Oh, he's from a different
neighborhood."
Tango has something very personal about it. One always thinks that one is
the best. Because it's personal. But it is the others who must say that,
not oneself. If one dances well, the women must say it. And if the woman
dances well, the men must say it. If the woman dances with different guys,
and she can keep up with them all, she dances well. When the man dances
with all the women, and they all say, "Oh, look how he dances, how well he
marks, and I feel good." There is no other standard. (Laughter.) To say,
"I'm the best", means nothing. It has no value.
J: Do the two of you have any plans for another show or any other projects?
E: Oh, many, many (laughs). Each day there are new things. Since I was
young I always had many things to do. And I have many things written down,
that I have not yet done. Works, books, things that are already written
down that have never been carried out. And the ones that we have done in
the 1990s, I conceived them in the 1960s. And I couldn't do them. Sometimes
I tried them with few people, in small places.
J: Like Super Tango?
E: Yes. Before Super Tango, we did Tango Tango, Corazon of Tango,
Tanguisimo. All of those things were ideated in the 60s. In the 70s and 80s
we made a few tries in smaller places, with fewer people. And once we had
the possibility to do them on a large scale in a theater, we did them.
G: Then we went to Japan.
E: We premiered in Japan many things that we already had thought about much
earlier. But there are things now.... We have a really strange country. We
don't have any support. After doing so much for the tango, we don't have a
cultural or governmental support. We are not teaching the Argentine youths
so they can be incorporated to tango. We should have a theater where all
the students can have an education, and do research.... We need cultural
support. In this manner we can do the things that we already have in our
minds, but also instruct the young people, so that they have the knowledge
of how to work in the theater, how to work on the dance floor, the
clothing, how to dance different periods.... all of those things that we
studied.
Sometimes we do it in a class. And we are just as happy. But we'd be
happier if we could give it to the youths, so people would understand and
learn, and later they'd come up with their own things with their own
creative minds.
G: It is the culture of our music.
E: That is what should happen. But we are used to doing everything drawing
from our own blood. It's not bad. This way one works harder. It's just a
way of life (laughs). It doesn't harm us; we're used to working hard. We
know that when the government sends somebody to represent the tango in
Europe or other parts of the world, it's always happens to be a "friend"
(laughter at the obvious reference to political favoritism). It has nothing
to do with qualifications or prestige. It's always been like that, and we
understand it.
At the 2000 New Year celebration they had a big show and Julio Boca danced
the tango. He has nothing to do with tango (laughing at the irony). How
could they choose Julio Boca when there are so many other qualified tango
dancers?
G: He is a great dancer, of course, but not a tango dancer. Tango has to be
danced by tango dancers.
E: This is exactly what I'm saying. We're not bad-mouthing anybody. It's
never in the right place. But we're used to this; this is what happens.
It's a way of life (smiling and shrugging his shoulders).
J: I want to thank you for your time, and wish you good luck with all your
projects. It will be good for us. I personally will be very interested in
your book.
E: Yes, yes. We are working on this book from the point of view of the
dancer. There are many books that have been written by people who don't
know how to dance tango. Thinking of ourselves, we know that when we did
not know how to dance, we thought differently. When one learns to dance,
there are other values, and we pay attention to other things. People who
don't know how to dance, don't know and they don't pay attention to them.
They confuse the values; they transpose things. They aggrandize some one,
and they minimize others. What is so great for them, it is not so great for
us.
So I think that musically speaking, in any form, the tango belongs on the
dance floor. And the more popular artists must be the ones who are on the
dance floor. Also, the music played to keep us on the dance floor must be
the most respected music. In another instance, we may respect the music for
a concert, but tango was not born as a concert. There may be good
musicians, with an excellent orchestra, but they don't do anything to move
a dancer's hair on the dance floor (laughs). Now, if I go to a concert, it
can be beautiful, phenomenal, no problem, but the tango is for dancing. It
has another way to be measured. There's another measure that we have. We
want to give an explication of our viewpoint from the dancer's perspective,
what we value, what the tango means to us. We are not going to be the
owners of the truth; it's just a viewpoint. "Others are the owners of the
truth." (Laughter) It's no good to pretend to be the owner of the truth.
It's just good to recognize things, things that those who don't know how to
dance don't recognize, that's all.
Manuel, Gloria, Eduardo
